On 28 February 1993, agents of the ATF went to serve warrants at Mount Carmel, the Branch Davidians' building outside Waco, Texas. The raid had been given away that morning. The gun battle lasted almost ninety minutes: four ATF agents were killed, and six Davidians died that day.
Byron: Steve? This is Byron Sage. Can you hear me now? Okay.
This is Byron Sage. I need to advise you of something that's very important. Can you understand me? Okay.
We're in the process of placing tear gas into the building. This is not an assault. We are not entering the building. Do you understand that?
This is not an assault in the building. We are not entering the building. This is not an assault. Do not fire your weapons.
If you fire, fire will be returned. Okay. They've hung up the phone. Outside Waco, Texas, in the spring of nineteen ninety-three.
For fifty-one days, the only way into the building called Mount Carmel was a telephone line. The F B I recorded every call. Mount Carmel stood a few miles from Waco. It was the home of a religious group, the Branch Davidians, led by a man who called himself David Koresh.
On the morning of the twenty-eighth of February, seventy-six agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms came to serve a warrant to search it, and a warrant for his arrest. Four agents and six Davidians died that day. For the next fifty-one days the F B I surrounded the building and talked to the people inside. On the nineteenth of April it began putting tear gas into the building.
Just after noon, fires broke out in three places. More than seventy people died inside, twenty-two of them children. This film is made from what the government recorded at the time: the negotiation tapes, and the transcripts typed from them for the Treasury Department. Every word quoted on screen comes from those transcripts, or from the four federal investigations that followed: the Treasury's and the Justice Department's in nineteen ninety-three, the House of Representatives' in nineteen ninety-six, and the Special Counsel's in two thousand.
In June nineteen ninety-two, the A T F's office in Austin opened an investigation into reports that the group held illegal firearms and explosive devices. Its leader had been born Vernon Wayne Howell. He had led the group since nineteen eighty-seven, and in nineteen ninety he changed his name to David Koresh. In January nineteen ninety-three, A T F agents moved into a small house across the road, posing as students at a local technical college.
One of them, Robert Rodriguez, met Koresh several times and was invited to his Bible studies. A federal judge issued the two warrants. The A T F planned to serve them in a single surprise entry, with the agents arriving hidden in cattle trailers. On the morning of the raid, a television cameraman sent to cover it got lost on the roads near Mount Carmel.
A letter carrier stopped to give him directions, and the cameraman told him a raid was coming. The letter carrier was a member of the group. He went to Koresh. Rodriguez was inside, at a Bible study.
Koresh was called out of the room, came back, and said that the A T F and the National Guard were coming. Rodriguez left and reported it. The Treasury's investigation later found that the commanders had enough information from him to know the raid had been compromised. They ordered it to go ahead.
The trailers arrived more than forty minutes after Koresh had been warned. The Treasury found that gunfire came from the building as the agents climbed out. The battle went on for almost ninety minutes. Four A T F agents were killed: Conway LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Robert Williams and Steven Willis.
More than twenty were wounded. Koresh was among the wounded inside. Six Davidians died that day.
During the shooting, a man inside, Wayne Martin, called nine one one, and a deputy at the county sheriff's office stayed on the line. An A T F supervisor, James Cavanaugh, reached Koresh by cellular telephone and negotiated a cease-fire, so that the agents could carry out their dead and wounded.
That evening, Koresh let some of the children go, in exchange for a passage of scripture he had recorded being played on a local radio station. Four children came out that day. At six the next morning, the F B I took control. Its negotiators worked in shifts, around the clock, with negotiators from the A T F, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the Austin police and the county sheriff.
Every session was recorded, and wherever possible typed up. Ten more children came out on the first of March. Koresh promised to come out if a message from him was broadcast nationally. On the second of March, a fifty-eight-minute recording of Koresh went out on television and radio.
He did not come out. People did leave. Between the twenty-eighth of February and the twenty-third of March, thirty- five people came out, twenty-one of them children. After that, the House investigation found, no one else left.
Alongside the talking came pressure. On the twelfth of March the F B I cut off the electricity. It moved armoured vehicles around the building, shone bright lights at it, and played loud music and other noise over loudspeakers. Some of the negotiators objected to these tactics as counter-productive.
On the first of April, Koresh promised to come out after Passover. On the fourteenth, he told his lawyer, Dick DeGuerin, that he would come out once he had finished writing his interpretation of the Seven Seals, from the Book of Revelation. The F B I called it a new precondition.
By then the F B I had a plan, and put it to the Attorney General, Janet Reno. Armoured vehicles would put a riot control agent, C S gas, into the building a section at a time, over two days. If the people inside fired on the vehicles, gas would go into the whole building at once. She approved it for the nineteenth of April.
At about six that morning, the F B I negotiator Byron Sage telephoned the building and told Steve Schneider, Koresh's second in command, that a tactical operation was beginning, and that it was not an assault. Then he began announcing it over the loudspeakers: the F B I was putting tear gas into the building, and everyone should come out. Minutes later an F B I sniper reported gunfire from the building, and at seven minutes past six gas was ordered into all of it at once. Just before half past six, the F B I found that one of its vehicles had cut the telephone line.
At six forty-one, the telephone was thrown out of the building. The gas went in all morning, with planned breaks. No one came out. The F B I also had listening devices inside the building, authorised by a court.
Between six and half past seven they recorded voices saying, "Need fuel." "Do you want it poured?" "David said we have to get the fuel on." And from a quarter past eleven: "I want a fire on the front." "Keep that fire going." The agents listening did not make out those words until the tapes were enhanced, after the fire. At seven minutes past twelve, the infrared camera on an F B I aircraft recorded a fire in a second-floor room at one corner of the building. A minute later there was a second, in the dining room, and then a third, at the back of the chapel. Within eighteen minutes the whole building was burning.
Agents heard gunfire inside. Nine people came out. One F B I agent ran into the fire and brought a woman out.
More than seventy people died. Autopsies found that nineteen of them had been shot at close range. Most of the others died from the smoke or the fire. David Koresh died of a gunshot wound to the head.
Whether he shot himself, or was shot, could not be determined. In nineteen ninety-six, a House investigation called the A T F's investigation grossly incompetent, and found that Koresh could have been arrested away from Mount Carmel. It placed the ultimate responsibility for the deaths on Koresh. In two thousand, the Special Counsel, John Danforth, examined the claims that the government had started the fire or fired into the building.
He found that it had done neither, and that the Davidians had spread fuel through the building and lit it in at least three places. He also found that an F B I agent had fired three pyrotechnic tear gas rounds that morning, at a concrete pit seventy-five feet from the living quarters, four hours before the fire; that they did not start it; and that F B I and Justice Department officials had not disclosed them until nineteen ninety-nine.
What follows are the negotiation tapes themselves, in the order they were made. On screen is the page of the government's transcript that holds the words being spoken. The third of March, just before ten at night: the evening after the broadcast. On the line are Koresh, and the F B I's night negotiator, Henry Garcia.
David: lot of innocent lives, that's all I can say. is because the Prophets were told to seal their Book till the end of time. Henry: Uh-huh. David: And how many times have all these churches been honking their heads saying that the end' could come any day.
You know, the longer, longer time takes, the less sin seems to be sinful. You know, today we have all these people doing all these terrible things in the name of theirself, you know? Henry: Uh-huh. David: And it just seems to be normal routine life.
I mean halt the story is not even told. look at all your show of might-- Henry: Well-- David: No, listen, let me, let me, let me-- Henry: Sure. David: --paint the picture, so we can watch this exactly how this government and this world really works. You know how this peaceful lamb-like beast really under its breast, speaks as a dragon, you know.
Henry: Uh huh. David: This is one of the greatest soci-- psychological formulas of man's division. I mean, it' just like, you know, I realize, you know, the three, the three men have talked with us thus far, are very smooth, very calm, very understanding. But, what really amazes me is how like with Jim, when I read to him plainly from the Prophecies about an event, a Messiah, dealing in a situation with chariots that ran like lightnings, that made thunders, that had flaming torches-- Henry: Uh-huh.
David: --that jostled in the streets, that made the fir trees shake, I asked him, I said where in the New Testament did you hear anything about Messiah being involved with tank, with chariots with flaming torches. Now mindful of the fact, we know that the Prophets in their day could only understand the things of their world. Henry: Right. David: I mean, you know, when it talks about th--and their horses shall be as, you know, like the evening wolves that are more terrible than the leopards, and faster than leopards, you know, is the Prophet really talking about real horses or is he only trying to point out that he sees men which he can identify men-- Henry: Uh-huh.
David: --and he sees vehicular transport that's way beyond his comprehension and he's trying to explain it with the things of his natural world. Henry: which he can understand. David: Which are the things that he's trying to relate. I I Henry: Uh-huh.
David: You know, and if they roar like a lion, does that mean that they're a lion or is a lion just the only reality that he knows in his life that is fearful. Henry: Uh-huh, right. David: And so, you know, it's just like, when Ezekiel says that God travels on this chariot, and that there's these flames, and there's these torches, and it sounds like the thunders of the Heaven. You see, is he really talking about a cloud or is he talking about some kind of vehicle with lights, and some kind of vehicle with, you know, makes a noise of thunder, because it's really a highly sophisticated, you know, implement of the higher universes.
Henry: Uh-huh. David: You've seen the documentary, Chariots of the Gods? Henry: Uh-huh. David: It kind of develops a good scientific question, doesn't it?
you know mankind, could have been realistically a part of a universal society? Remember, our ancient fathers have given us record-- Henry: Uh-huh. David: --that men from other worlds have visited our world. Henry: Right.
David: Now this is not biblical. It's more scientific. Henry: Uh-huh. David: You know, so all the, all nations, the hieroglyphics, the technologies of the past ancients, well, I wonder, I wonder why that the concept of good man.
Everyone has the question of the right and wrong way of doing things. Henry: Uh-huh. David: But, you know, isn't it strange how that God a lot of the prophecies of the bible cannot really be understood-- Henry: Right. David: --until man's technology so advances to a degree that understand the real meanings of the prophecies.
Uh-huh Now we know the flaming, the chariots with flaming torches that make noise like thunder, you know, we know what that really is, don't we? Henry: Sure. David: What is it? Henry: Well, the same thing that you're talking about.
David: Tanks. Henry: Right. David: Okay. Now, how would the Prophet be justified of such an event saying that Messiah is being confronted with a situation and yet we know clearly from Matthew, Hark, Luke and John, no such thing happened.
Henry: What do you think? David: Well, it would make the Prophet false, wouldn't it? Henry: Sure. David: But of course Christ says "think not that I've come to destroy the law of the Prophets," that's what he told his disciples.
Henry: Uh-huh. David: Some come not to destroy, but to fulfill. Henry: Right. David: And, until Heaven and Earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law or the prophets until all be fulfilled.
Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. I Now what are the words of Christ? Well, John, he always keeps telling the Jews that this doctrine is not his own, but the doctrine that he received from his father. Henry: Uh-huh.
David: Revelation, what are those seven seals, I wonder. It's probably a situation that when Christ does come, he's going to get into a situation, 'cause remember he is a political leader, isn't he? Henry: Uh-huh. David: would you consider Christ a political leader?
Henry: Leader of all, you know, political David: Well, I mean, I'm sure that if he was to come today in the clouds of glory, I'm sure that your, your national leaders and all of your great empire directors and all that would no doubt have a united, United Council, the Pontiff and all the leaders of all churches and of all governments would come together and sit down and talk about some things cause naturally his armies of the universe is far greater than the armies of this world. Henry: Uh-huh. David: Okay. well that's going to happen.
Henry: Sure. David: But the thing of it is, it happens after a catastrophe. Because, you know, I bet that the gentiles of today are really no better than the Jews of yesterday. What would you want to bet?
Henry: I'm sure that that makes a lot of sense. David: You know, Isaiah said that Israel didn't believe his people because they're like the Philistines. They're soothsayers and they have their own imaginations, but they don't walk in God's word. The seventh of March, in the morning.
The negotiator the transcript calls Dick talks with Steve Schneider, Koresh's second in command, with Koresh himself, and with others inside who come to the telephone.
Dick: where a person writes in and says that the, the attack, he calls it an attack on the compound by federal agents was an attempt to suppress religion simply because the members live communally. And he goes on to say the government has become a police state. They want everybody to bow down to them. Goes on to say, he said the raid's violence which left four ATF agents and at least some Dividians dead was the fault of the U.S.
Government. Now that's the kind of support you're getting out there. But you need to, to ensure that that is communicated by the people inside that can tell Nicole: You don't want us to have a line. You don't want us to have a line out.
That is a, that's a fact. You don't. Because you would have given it to us a long time ago. Dick: Your best line is to walk out of there and talk to whomever you want to talk to.
Nicole: I'm not walking out of -- oh, freedom of speech. What happened to the Constitution of America? It doesn't exist. Dick: What did I just tell you?
You have the ability to talk to anyone you wish. when you come out of there absolutely. And I told David and Steve there will be so many requests to talk to you folks you'll be able to get your story out in any fashion -- Nicole: That's a load of baloney. Dick: It isn't And you're going to have to be willing to give and take.
Nicole: Dick, there's seven seals, all right? And I've been in this message for 5 years, in this truth. Dick: Um-hum. Nicole: I have seen more than what you could have ever seen.
I have an experience that you don't understand. God said wait. And so I'm waiting. Because I am trusting in something that I have seen, that I have experienced.
I don't trust in you kind of people. Dick: Well, I think we've shown you Nicole: trust at all. you speak like a dragon. That's what I've experienced.
Dick: Nicole, we're interested in ensuring your safety and all the other folks in there -- Nicole: My Dick: -- and your kids. Nicole: You come in here and start blasting the place while it's full of kids. You don't, you don't come with your arrest warrant. I was down there when Robert Gonzales came in here, all right?
Dick: Um-hum. Nicole: I was there. I noticed I was very suspicious of his behavior. Dick: Okay.
Nicole: The way he was in the study. Dick: Um-hum. Nicole: I was very suspicious. And then he said he wasn't going to come back until Monday.
He shows up on Sunday morning with a newspaper with an article on our members here full of baloney from the press. He comes in. He sits down. Dick: Is that the first time you had seen that article?
Nicole: No. we, we -- that was -- we'd already had one the day before. Dick: Okay. Nicole: Okay?
Dick: Okay. Nicole: And he came in here. I remember standing at the window. I was about to walk off.
And he looked up at me. But the expression he had on his face made me even more suspicious again. Okay? Dick: I understand what you're saying.
Nicole: Then he leaves. Ten minutes later we've got the whole place in bullets. I mean little girl. Dick: Okay.
Nicole: Okay? Dick: What's her name. Nicole: Her name is Paigis. Dick: Paigis?
Nicole: Okay? And she hasn't had any milk for 5 days. Dick: Okay. Nicole: Okay, I'm doing the best that I can Dick: You as a mother then should demand that we, that, that David allow us to get that milk into you then.
They say they're no longer interested in milk, because it came up 4 days ago, and because it's there you no longer have an interest. It would seem -- Nicole: We have an interest. Dick: -- to me that interest would be even greater now. Nicole: Why don't you send it in?
Dick: We are prepared to send it in. Nicole: Well, just send it in. I don't know what the big hold up is. Dick: David, David is not agreeable to that.
Nicole: He's not agreeable for you to send the milk in. Dick: Exactly. Nicole: I have nothing more to say to you, Dick. David: Hey.
I told you my God said wait. make any difference to me at this point. upon you and your family to the letter. Do you understand?
Read this Psalm and try to observe some wisdom. And that's from God. Dick: David, you said you cared about me the other day. And then all of a sudden now you're mad at me.
I don't understand why. David: Hey. You're getting me mad. And that's all right Dick: Well, I'm not trying to.
David: -- because in Psalms 2 Dick: You think this is a game? Steve: Listen. I don't even know what Dick: you think this is a game? You think this is a game we're playing?
Steve: I don't even know -- what are you talking about, Dick? Make yourself plain. There's a guy in the tower. What does that mean?
Dick: With camouflage paint as though he's looking the area over and making some sort of a move on something. Is that what you want to do? Steve: I don't now this is the first I've even heard of it. I don't even know what you're talking about.
I'd have to go investigate. Dick: well, then you better find out what we're talking about. You're the person in charge in there, you and David. You better take care of these kinds of things, and you better control those people in there.
Steve: Or what? Do you want to take us -- do you want to come in and take us out? No. That's exactly what we do not want to do.
Steve: Okay, just relax a minute. Let me find out what is going on. Dick: You find, you find out -- Steve: This is the first I've heard anything. I don't even know what you're talking about.
Dick: You find out. It's the -- Steve: Look, I'll call you back. Dick: -- upper window on the tower. You find out what -- Steve: I'll call you back, Dick.
Dick: Very well. Steve: Okay, bye. Dick: Hello? Steve: Hello, Dick?
Dick: Yes. Steve: I went and checked it out. Someone was looking out the window. They might they had a camouflage jacket on.
Is that what you're talking about? And a balaclava. Steve: And a bottle of what? Dick: A balaclava.
Steve: I have -- what is a balaclava. Dick: Well, you check with your people and find out what a balaclava is if you don't know what it is. Unidentified Male Speaker: Hood. Steve: I have no idea.
Dick: It's a hood. It's a hood. Steve: It's a what? Dick: It's a hood that goes over the face.
Steve: We don't even have such a thing. I don't know where on earth you have that. There's a woman up there we got some jackets a long time ago. Some guy sold us some things.
They were cheap like a dollar or so for the clothes. So the and they're 100 percent cotton. There's a woman up there that had a jacket on that is looking out the window. Dick: Let me tell you something, Steve.
I'm sitting here trying to work with you getting no cooperation from you Steve: Are you, are you hearing me though? Dick: And then -- Steve: That's -- I'm telling you what it is. I checked it out. That's exactly what it was.
Dick: Well, I'm glad you did. But let's caution those people in there about those kinds of things. We've got people out there that get concerned when they see that kind of thing. Steve: See someone looking out the window?
Dick: No. Steve: No, no. You listen to me. We Dick: Making those kind Steve: -- get concerned when you're on our damn property and you have never come around and said what you would do from the beginning.
I am tired of because we have a human being in our building looking out the window with a bala what is it, whatever it is? You speak your stupid, crazy language. I don't even know what you're talking about. Don't accuse me and threaten me of anything.
If you want to take me out and take these people out, do See if you believe in a God. I know, I really know you don't. Dick: You think you're the only one that talks to God out there? Steve: I have never said that, Dick.
But I mean these, the way your manner has been you have not complied no, no, no. You have not complied from day one with having your vehicles on our private property which you agreed to. You agreed to that, Dick, you and your people there. And still they wander around, and you've got the audacity to call me up because a human being is looking out a window when you've got guys in our automobiles, moving our motorcycles, doing things that you never called me about.
You know what I want to say to you? And I'm trying to hold back. Because I still love you and your soul and those people down there. I do want to communicate with you.
We all do. But what is this one-sided business, Dick? Let's start being real serious. Dick: That's our point.
Steve: No, no, it is not your point. You start looking at what and then and you're recording everything. You look to hear what Dick: Listen, when you fired on not the only one that listens to God David: God does not. You do not know the seven seals.
You little David of old went before Goliath, I stand before you. You and this nation's going to learn there's a God in heaven. He has a truth, and just because you wish to evade it, just because you do not know the fear of the Lord does not mean you're going to be without responsibility. You are going to pay.
Now keep your press conferences going. Keep communications going. But remember, I'm telling you there's a lot more of us than you know. A lot more than you realize.
Dick: what is that supposed to imply? David: That implies you go ahead and you do with us what you feel. You go ahead and tell the press what you want. trying to communicate with you.
Everything I've said you've got recorded. Now you I suggest to you you review in the fear of God very prayerfully referring to you and who else there? Dick: No. That we meaning we here And the sooner that we agree on that, the sooner we're going to get it resolved appropriately with -- David: Do not call us up and tell us that someone is looking out the window.
we want to. Dick: I did not tell you to look out the window. I said take care in the manner in which you do that so nothing -- David: Right. You fire on us Dick: So that nothing happens.
David: -- you fire on us and it starts. I I Dick: There is no firing going to be done. David: Okay. So you don't have to warn us about looking out the window then.
Dick: I am telling you that the safety rules need to be David: dying, Dick? Dick: Am I worried about dying? David: Yes. The same day, a little after half past six in the evening.
A negotiator the transcript calls John, with Koresh and Steve Schneider.
Steve Schneider: Well, I know, but you five though John: Yeah. Steve Schneider: -- and he says -- and we got five. John: But it -- does that seem like a reasonable thing? Steve Schneider: Well, you want their names?
John: Sure. Steve Schneider: Okay. The first one is especially appreciate, I really do. John: And I'm trying to be as calm as David Koresh: it was like someone kicking me in the back, but it was well worth it.
John: Huh? David Koresh: It's like -- John: When you were talking about the five children? Huh? See?
That's Satan speaking there, isn't it? David Koresh: NO, John. John: Huh? David Koresh: No.
Be careful. Don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Don't dare do that, son. Now, do you want to learn this or not?
All right. Now, like, like Gaychay said, you know, I, that my god's lied don't play that game. Hey, let me tell you something, before I hang up on you, John: Don't do that. all right?
David Koresh: No, no. Listen. John: What? David Koresh: You're dealing with my children now.
John: Well, I -- all the children are your children. All those people are your children. David Koresh: -- you just wait a minute, you wait a minute. You're dealing with my biological children now.
John: Why do you say that? David Koresh: Because that's what we've come down to. John: Well, I'm concerned about -- David Koresh: Don't say -- John: -- the care and welfare of your children. David Koresh: Kevin because the milk was on the way.
John: It didn't come up. David Koresh: Let's stop right now, all right? John: Well, I just wanted to tell you what I was asked to tell you. It's just that I'm taking it personal, okay?
Now, in Psalms 2 it says -- to get angry understand the mentality of the people here. You misjudge. You don't understand that whereas we are sober in the degree and we love souls and want you guys John: to observe something in the daylight hours. It's really difficult -- David Koresh: Well, let me tell you something, John.
John: -- at nighttime. David Koresh: Let me tell you. If somebody does John: Yes. David Koresh: Okay?
John: Don't do it. David Koresh: No, but let me say something. If somebody does, stop making your threats, okay? We Do you understand?
okay. Let me say something. John: Go ahead. David Koresh: Next time one of your tanks points a barrel at one of our windows -- John: Um-hum.
David Koresh: Okay? John: Um-hum. David Koresh: Then we'll, then we'll see where the cheese goes, okay? John: What, what goes?
David Koresh: Where the cheese goes. John: What's that mean? David Koresh: Well, find out. John: Well, I don't want to get any threats from you.
You're not getting any threats from me. David Koresh: That's not a threat, it's a promise. John: Huh? David Koresh: It's a promise.
John: Promise to do what? David Koresh: Like I said, find out. John: Yeah. Do you -- David Koresh: When somebody -- let me tell you something, John.
John: Do you -- David Koresh: When someone sticks a and I mean it. The twelfth of March. That day the F B I cut off the electricity, and the first young adults came out, Kathy Schroeder and Oliver Gyarfas. Between that night and the next morning, Steve Schneider talks with Dick.
Steve: See, see it's not that, Dick, it's not that we can't after the attempt of working and I said to him I'm turning in. I said anything you want me to say to these guys when they call? I said as far as I'm concerned, I'll just, I'd pull the plug, and I'm just going to get some rest. I'm not going to worry about it until we're counseling amongst ourselves.
And I'm communicating with God, and God's going to give us an answer. And we're going to go from there. we heard over the press a number of times that two of them admitted that one of them either accidentally or something shot of a gun. And then all the rest started shooting.
Dick: Yeah. Steve: And I now I don't know if that I mean who knows where it came from? But that makes sense to me. Because the truth is I was at the the hallway where David was at the front Dick: Uh-huh.
Steve: end of And the first thing I heard is I never heard any voices on the outside. I door. didn't even know anyone was around. But I heard David yell something to get, stand back or something to nature.
Wait. we've got women and children in Let's talk or, or let's communicate. Something effect. out that here.
to that And about that time, that's when I heard a pop and then many, you know, like making machine gun- noise!, many, a lot of gunfire going off from the I could hear it was from the outside. Because you know, if it being although I've never heard gunfire inside of a building. All of a sudden, you know, I heard all this noise. And I -- it was terrifying.
I was in a room where there was a telephone. And I'm trying to reach for I mean all of a sudden bullets are going over my head. Windows are being shot out. Dick: I mean I'd be scared.
I'd be terrified. I mean Steve: -- next thing I'm trying to reach over by the phone, both Wayne and I, and trying to get a.hold of anybody. We didn't even I did not know for who it was even out there. Didn't have the foggiest.
Dick: Um-hum. Steve: we had suspected that there was some type of agents across the street. The guy that was coming over, I mean you could tell he's late thirties. You could tell by the way he carried himself that he was definitely a professional of some sort.
But that like we reported over and over again, that didn't matter. He was a human being.' He showed an interest' in the Bible. And we were happy -- Dick: Robert, Robert. I Steve: Yeah, Robert Gonzales.
We were happy for that. But the day he left, people -- they keep on saying they're, they're trying to check out on leaks. They're never going to find a leak. Nobody called us.
Dick: Yeah. Well, you Steve: I mean people don't buy that this David has inspiration. I sat there with Gonzales and David. And David told him a couple of things that surprised me that morning.
looking And then finally, Perry Jones happened to be out the one window. And when Gonzales went out the door, his alarm went off for the first time like four, four times. It was kind of a -- anyway, he noticed looking vehicle down by that, Perry Jones. Then he happened to be out the window and noticed there was another that belonged to these guys across the street those water tanks.
Dick: Um-hum. Steve: And as soon as that alarm went off, he saw the vehicle head out. So that told him that well, what's -- what is this? And then plus, Gonzales had said I'm going back for breakfast.
And I just I happened to wave to the guy and say well, we'll catch you a little later then. he went And, and as I, I watched him, over to his house and then left right away. He didn't, he didn't listen. I'm 43 years old myself.
I've been in the world, in this world a little while. Not long. But because I've dealt with thousands of people of all walks of life, and I'm always sitting down with people in regards to eternal things, opening up the Bible, trying to find an avenue to their mind where I can show them something that they might evaluate the information offered to them and give it a judgment. But I, you know, after observation and through the years watching how people work, I mean it's pretty hard to buy that that anybody would be so naive as to hear some of the things I'm told.
it harmonizes, not by The twenty-fourth of March. From the day before, the House investigation found, no one else left the building. On the twenty-fourth, the Justice Department recorded, a man named Louis Alaniz slipped through the perimeter and went in. On the line, Steve Schneider, and the negotiators Jennifer and John Cox.
Steve Schneider: It is. But, see, that's apparently what people don't understand. If they did look at the Bible, they would find out there are -- what -- it's called Rosh Kadesh, which are 12 new moons. There's 12 out of the year.
And Jennifer: Okay. Steve Schneider: -- those are considered to be sabbaths. Jennifer: Wasn't that yesterday? Wasn't the new moon yesterday?
Steve Schneider: It started yesterday. When it starts, it goes right on through till when the sun goes down today. Jennifer: So, it was sundown -- -- yesterday to sundown today? Steve Schneider: Exactly.
Jennifer: Is that what you've been doing all morning? Steve Schneider: Yes. Jennifer: Are, are you'all Steve Schneider: In fact, see, David is extremely himself irate because of, we had mentioned a number of times, about them playing the tapes during certain periods of time. Jennifer: Sure.
Uh-huh. Steve Schneider: And -- meaning like the daily. Jennifer: Yeah. Steve Schneider: And they've Jennifer: Right.
Steve Schneider: -- started doing that recently. So, because of that, the communication isn't going to be there anymore. Jennifer: Well, wait a second. We, we have stopped doing it during the daily -- we've, we've respected your daily I believe that was Steve Schneider: Well, they -- you -- they haven't.
you know, they really haven't. And for that reason, until they come around, there will be no communication. And the word is from David that they I will have to do what they have to do. We're just going to have to trust in our God.
If he does nothing, well, it ends however it ends. Jennifer: Now, let me, let me also explain the mechanics of things. You know about the, the people that have been in your yard and the tapes and things like that. Those are things I don't have control over.
So, let's talk about something I do have control over, find out something that, that I can do for him. Steve Schneider: But, but, listen, Jennifer, I mean, I, I appreciate what you're saying and doing, but I don't really -- okay. You don't have control over it. We're going to have to, in this building, show these people once and for all, this is what's I going to be done, that if you tell us one thing and they go contrary and you don't have any control Jennifer: Right.
Steve Schneider: -- then there will be no communication because it does not matter. Jennifer: Well, I can tell you Steve Schneider: If they're not hearing us and they keep on enforcing their will upon a people that put God first, they don't understand it, so it something's got to be manifested. this is a very important time and it's also a reaction. I mean, see, we don't, we don't get into the, the areas of business and the areas that we're speaking of now on this time.
It's a time we devote our minds to God and understanding his will and what he's choosing to do in regards to the events of mankind. Jennifer: 'Yeah. And that's, that's a extremely important on Steve Schneider: Let me call you right back, John Cox: Hey, we need something resolved. Somebody's standing outside your front door.
Steve Schneider: Hello? John Cox: Steve? Steve Schneider: Yes. John Cox: Hey, don't hang up on me.
Steve Schneider: Well, no, no. I just had I was -- in fact, just had to I was almost dropping something here, so I had to just call you right back here. John Cox: Well -- Steve Schneider: I was going to call -- John Cox: We -- Steve Schneider: -- you right back. John Cox: -- we just got a call that some?ody had come out one of your side doors, was standing banging on your front door, somebody's out walking around out there.
Steve Schneider: Well, I was way at the other end of the building. I just found out myself. I knew nothing. I'm telling you -- John Cox: You know, if you Steve Schneider: nothing John Cox: threw somebody out of there or something.
Steve Schneider: Pardon? John Cox: You didn't throw somebody out, did you? Steve Schneider: No. No, no, I thought it was somebody from your, your side John Cox: No, no, no, no.
Steve Schneider: seen him before in my life. John Cox: Can you find out for me who it I was? Steve Schneider: Well, that's what I'm trying to find out right now. John Cox: Okay.
Steve Schneider: And let, let -- John Cox: Because, you know, we don't need any kind of problems, right? Steve Schneider: Well, no. In fact, that's why I was wondering what was going on. We were all wondering the same thing.
John Cox: Well, what -- can you find out and give me a call back? I Steve Schneider: I will. John Cox: All right. Steve Schneider: Okay.
Bye. John Cox: Appreciate it. Steve Schneider: Hello? John Cox: Steve?
Steve Schneider: Yeah, I'm still trying to find out who he is. a sudden I was at one, I was at one end of the building, and all of a sudden I John Cox: Uh-huh. Steve Schneider: I heard everybody saying hey, there's a man out frontr There's a man out front, and he's coming -- he's at, he's at the porch. John Cox: Well, apparently he came out the end of the building down around the chicken coops or whatever and went wandering around, took his shirt off, standing around your front door and banging on the door, and Steve Schneider: Well, that's when people started wondering if it -- I John Cox: We just can't have this happening.
You know? Steve Schneider: Would -- you're telling me. I mean, I've never seen the man in my life. John Cox: have some open Steve Schneider: I, I don't think John bel-- John Cox: -- lines of communication.
Steve Schneider: -- I, I don't think John believes me. John Cox: What? I Steve Schneider: That -- did you send this guy in, John? John Cox: Don't be playing games with me now.
Steve Schneider: Huh? John Cox: We don't do things like that. You know better than that. He's -- Steve Schneider: Well, John, I -- John Cox: -- somebody from inside there.
And -- - John thinks he's from the inside here. Steve Schneider: John? John Cox: Send him out then. Steve Schneider: Listen John Cox: Send him out.
Steve Schneider: I'm talking to him right now. I don't know if we should or not. John Cox: Just send him down the road. Just send him right down the road.
Steve Schneider: He said he, he said he came all ghe way from three states over. He came to hear the Eiglg. He came to check us out. He says he's a -- John Cox: Well -- Steve Schneider: -- Christian.
John Cox: Either, either tell us who he is or send him down the road. Steve Schneider: I'm trying to find that out, John, right now. John Cox: Okay. Steve Schneider: I'm trying to find that out John Cox: Is he talking to David now?
Steve Schneider: Yes, he is. David just came around. He just tried to get up here and he just showed up minute. by the guy.
John Cox: Well, let me talk to David for a Steve Schneider: Just a minute. - Is David nearby still? - … Strangest happening. I have this out there Steve Schneider: Strangest thing, I swear.
thing I've ever -- John Cox: All right. We can't have this Steve Schneider: What do you mean we can't happen, John? John Cox: We cannot Steve Schneider: What do you mean we John Cox: -- have people wandering around You know? Steve Schneider: Are, are you John Cox: Some-- Steve Schneider: -- going to -- John Cox: somebody's going to get hurt.
Steve Schneider: David says are you going to condemn us if it rains today? John Cox: We're talking substantive matters. We're Steve Schneider: you listen to me before I put the phone down. John Cox: Hey -- Steve Schneider: I'm going to tell you the truth.
Now, listen to me. I've never seen the man. Nobody in this building ever seen him before in their life. John Cox: Well, then ju-- Steve Schneider: Nobody here.
John Cox: -- just find out who he is and send him down the road. Steve Schneider: Okay. But John Cox: Okay? Steve Schneider: -- believe me, tr-- don't call me a liar, because I'm telling you the truth.
John Cox: Well, just find out who he is and send him Steve Schneider: I am John Cox: -- down the road. Steve Schneider: John, that's what I'm trying to do -- JOHN Okay. -- now. I'm trying to find out what he -- how he got here, what he John Cox: Okay.
Steve Schneider: -- needs, what he wants. John Cox: Go find David and put him on with me. would you, please? Steve Schneider: And plus, plus -- listen.
The reason we haven't been answering the phone, we told you that John Cox: I know it's your sabbath. Steve Schneider: -- it's the sabbath day. Okay. John Cox: And we respected that.
Steve Schneider: Okay. I'll be talking to you;n a bit. John Cox: Thank you. Steve Schneider: Okay, bye.
The next morning, the twenty-fifth of March. Steve Schneider, and Dick. Steve: this guy. I don't know, I don't know really what the problem if he's
Dick: Well, you know, that's, that's not what you told us way back on the Steve: -- I've never known this Craig Smith. I've never talked about him. All I know is the Bible says Dick: the FBI is controlling the Christian Broadcasting System now? Is that what you're Steve: Hold it.
Don't put words into my mouth, suggesting? Dick. In chapter 7 of Matthew it says judge not that ye be not judged. And all I heard you guys are playing this tape from him over and over again.
That's all the man does is judge us. He has never even talked to David or myself. All he can do is get the information that you've disseminated to him. Your hero.
Dick: No, well, now let's, let's -- let me back up a bit, okay? Steve: I mean with this guy, all that garbage that's coming out of his mouth. The audacity of a man to ever Dick: Okay. He has a wide following.
Steve: -- another without walking in his shoes or, or talking to him Dick: Steve, he has a wide following across the country. He Steve: does have a following. He's a guru I would imagine Dick: Listen. Listen, please.
He is the same person that allowed that tape to be played over, acros the country early on put that tape together. It do with the FBI. Steve: You and I And myself, I see that when this, an event, Dick, anybody that has any sense at all would see that will bring him ratings, that it will -- if anything at all the attention will gain a wider acception sic! or Dick: Do you think perhaps Steve: -- or awareness of his almost obscure program.
I'd never heard of or his, or his program. the man before in my life Dick: Well, how is it obscure if he can, if he has access to all the Christian Broadcasting Steve: I don't buy that he does. I, I don't buy it. You, you people have told me that.
And we've had, we've had information come back to us that that message went basically nowhere except for the US Texas Today or that station up in Dallas. Dick: You know what, Steve? I just -- you know, it's difficult to deal that every time something is a negative. That's just not Steve: you cut us off from all all, every other kind of communication, what are we to deduce from that, Dick?
when you're so powerful as an agency you take preeminence over every other aspect of American life including the press that they can't come near, they can't report. You buy them pizza in the first few days. You move them, you move them -- Dick: We buy them pizza. Steve: That's correct.
And you moved them back a mile and a half, a couple miles further back using the excuse for their protection. It becomes a party. These people to me are bought and paid for, have been long ago. Have been long ago.
And I'm telling you that you're going to face God very shortly and so am I. Both of us are. But the thing is you don't believe it and I do. That's the difference.
Dick: okay? The property. The property we understand it means a great deal to you folks. And, and nobody, nobody would, would question that.
We have told you repeatedly that you will have the ability to return to the property as soon as -- Steve: Do you know how many people believe that, Dick, here? Do you just ask me. Not even one person in this building believes that in the least. Dick: Steve, how, how do we convince you that this is true?
We've told you. I've Steve: Because number one, all these -- Dick: -- told you. John's told you. Byron's told you.
Steve: All these people that are still incarcerated like Kathy Schroeder. Dick: Okay. Steve: Why is she not on the outside? The woman never did anything.
These people have not how come I tell you, it gets back to the same issues that you and I go round and round about. You've got this maniac organization, the ATF, on the loose. They're terrorists. They should be dealt with as such.
They should be investigated. They're the ones that came here riddling David Koresh's bedroom up full, from helicopters which they have lied about. And you allow that to be disseminated across America. They can be on the, on the outside doing that.
But you want to incarcerate me and everybody in here, and you're trying to tell me that we're going to have freedom to speak. I've seen in the past what have happened to people that have been termed as criminals. Everybody is guilty until proven innocent. That's what you've shown over and over again.
Dick: Steve, that's not true. Steve: Give me examples -- but it is. Come on. America at large is -- Dick: Steve.
Steve, listen. Let's -- Steve: -- is saying that. Dick: -- let's restrict ourself to this issue here. We need to, we need to address this issue here, okay?
We are telling you that you will have the ability to return to that property. That property will not be taken. It cannot be taken by law. All right.
Let's move on to the next issue which -- Steve: Wait, wait, wait. You sent remember how Byron sent me a statement? And if you saw how ambiguous the statement is, you could tell by what the statement was. It was it said in regards to firearms.
But do you know how many other ways there are to take property through the government, the ways -- holy -- I mean remember now, I've got some understanding of some of the laws and how it works. Wayne Martin is also here. So we can come up with so many ways what the government could do to take this property. And I mean there's no question about it.
I know what they've done in the past to friends of mine or acquaintances that someone used their car and maybe stuck drugs in it or something. They lost their car for good. Never got it back. Dick: Steve, we're not talking about drugs here.
I will tell you -- Steve: No, I know that. But I'm giving you an example of what the government, the things they do. You and I are aware of that. Dick: Steve, I know that.
I know that the government can take property if it has something to do with drugs. That's under the forfeiture clause, okay? But we're not dealing with drugs here. Steve: I'm using drugs as an example.
There are -- Dick: Okay. Steve: -- hundreds of things that can be used by the government for reasons to confiscate -- Dick: We have to address, we have to address this issue. Your property, not somebody else's property. This property.
That property. Steve: What's left of it you mean? What are, what are you going to destroy next? Dick: Why would we want to destroy that property?
Steve: You tell -- I've been waiting to find that out myself. Dick: You know, you're, you're absolutely in control of whatever happens to that property out there, Steve. Steve: Laughing.! I'm -- hey, I'm absolutely in control of what happens to this property out here.
Unidentified Male Speaker: Who said that? Steve: This is Dick on the phone telling me that. Dick: Well, that's exactly the truth. How would you question that?
Steve: You said we are. I am. Dick: Well, I'm talking about you folks out there are in.control of that property. It belongs to you.
What happens to that property is your responsibility. What we want to do and what we will do when, when the time is right is we will process the crime scene there. You know that. We know that.
Steve: That wouldn't be so bad. The biggest -- Dick: Okay. Steve: -- issue that I've raised with you, Dick, is not that you would be here even or that the Texas Rangers. But I'm adamant about this part that the Atfhis playing.
The ones that came to this place, and what I've heard on the press conference the outright lies by Conroy. I mean awesome, totally awesome. And to think that that agency would be involved in any aspect of this from here on out blows my mind that that would even be allowed in America. Whatever happened to justice?
You want me to come out into that system. And I told you I'm even willing to do it. I don't know why. I must be insane.
Because I totally don't trust you people because of what you're allowing with that agency after what they've done. Why haven't you arrested people? It's against the law to come in they didn't serve anything. They didn't have a paper in their hand.
They didn't do those kind of things that they said they did. I you, you won't believe the witnesses here. But are they going to have a chance to witness they don't think so. Because you've allowed this agency to be on the loose.
Dick, what do you expect of us? Come on. If you were inside here as an American knowing something about your rights guaranteed by the Constitution, you would be not apt to go stick your head out into the mouth of a dragon. And this is exactly what's going on here.
Dick: Steve, listen. Steve. I Steve: I wish you could, I wish you could tell me some information that they were being detained or that they were being moved away from the situation, that you, the FBI, were in control. I don't, I don't like to hear what I'm hearing about the ATF and the part they're still playing even when it comes to transporting the people from this building.
Dick: Well, Steve, let's face it. There are some things that we will, we will deal with when the time is right -- I A Steve: No, no, no. Dick: -- and that will be done. Steve: You start dealing with it now so we can come out.
I mean that's one of the biggest reasons I have not been able to hurdle talking to the people getting them to come out, Dick. Dick: Okay. Steve, why don't you and your family come out, and then you handle these issues? Okay?
Why don't we do that? Steve: How am I going to handle them when I'll be, when I'll be shackled hands and feet and thrown the key will be thrown away. Who's going to hear me? Dick: Steve, what would you like us to do?
Let you walk down the road and walk to town and then maybe check in to one of the local motels? Steve: before it came to the place where you came to take my life, I was free to do that then. I've never done anything illegal nor have I broke any laws in America. No laws, no statutes, no anything.
Dick: Then you will have, you will have the ability to do just exactly that. Steve: So why do you have to rob some of the time of my life by shackling me and all the rest of it as you're going to do and mishandle, mistreat and you're -- I really believe you're going to create some, some things that I've done unlawful that are untrue. I mean if this ATP, this powerful agency is out there still involved already doing what they did, how they came to this door and riddled the front door and the walls and everything. You still don't know about the wounded and the dead by the way.
And what they did right off. He should have been Three weeks later. On the fourteenth of April, Koresh told his lawyer he would come out once he had written his interpretation of the Seven Seals. The next evening he talks about the seals with a negotiator the transcript calls Clint.
Mr. Koresh: be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in different places.
Clint: Okay. Is, is that end drawing near? Mr. Koresh: He says but not your heart be troubled.
Clint: No, no. I know. And, and my heart's not troubled. Mr.
Koresh: Right. Clint: You know, I mean, that's, I that's -- the end drawing near is not a trouble to me. Mr. Koresh: Yeah.
You see. when Rome began to fall and became Europe, I mean there was nothing but wars and rumors of wars. But, but he says all these things are the beginning of sorrows. Verse 9, "Then shall they deliver you up to the afflicted and shall kill you.
You shall be hated of all nations for my namesake." Christians are to be hated. "Then shall many be offended and shall betray one another."' I mean, if you've got to die for it, I mean, that puts a different light on it. And shall hate one another." Clint: Christ. Christ may not have accomplished everything he set out to do.
Mr. Koresh: here's the thing. "And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many. say a part of this gospel, which we know will continue on through Romans, Corinthians, Ephesians, Galatians, Philippians, you know, even the Book of Revelation, all of that is the gospel, such as in Revelation 14, the everlasting gospel.
But here's the point that I want to bring us up to, and then we'll come talking to the woman at the well? Clint: Sure I do. Mr. Koresh: He says the time is coming to deny us, when they that worship the father will worship neither in Jerusalem nor in the was not since finally, he came to the front, he says you both know who I am and whence I've come from.
So he'd done so many miracles and said yet they believe not. What we're trying to aim for is the world have an interpretation of the seven seals. says well, why don't you show me the seven seals according to what the And if anybody knows the prophecies, what they taught and what they said and how they're going to be brought out, Christ would know. that Christ is their lord and savior.
And then when they realize very clearly that only the lamb can reveal these things, then when I begin to open up these things, they look at me kind of funny. Later the same night, into the sixteenth of April. Steve Schneider, and Dick.
Steve Schneider: No, no, but, Dick, these people do expect to come out. And if you think it's a stalling tactic, well, that -- you know, think what you will. But I'm telling you that is not so. Dick: Let me ask you something, Steve.
You know, all of you no-- nobody's going to question or quarrel with your belief in God. If this same God is, is watching out for you and others, why not let -- put your -- you know, that your future in his hands You're saying you'll do that at, at a particular point in time. Steve Schneider: I'm saying that God's already we've already put ourselves in his hands and this is his will. Why do you think he's allowed, when Mg: you read the stories of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, all that he's allowed with his so-called people?
They've always been a minority. And I'm not even saying that makes that we are or that we're trying to create a in for ourselves martyrdom. On the contrary, not at all. I want life.
I want quality life here and now and going right on into a better one that doesn't end. three million people made it into the percent into something or I'm back into Hawaii to live for you can do with, with me what you want. And I am anyway. Dick: you have to do one or the other?
I mean, why -- this isn't Steve Schneider: Well, because that's … -- A Dick: -- an either/or Steve Schneider: Because there's a -- for me, Dick, and I, I -- you're -- really, I like a lot of things about yourself as a person. I mean, you do at least listen enough to at least -- I, I really think you do understand what denomination, they can't prove Yes, I can. It's simple. But you're not going to, like you say, give me an opportunity on the phone.
You, you're an FBI agent that, you know -- someone's belief system or their, their thoughts and spiritual realms is not what you're there to hear in the first place. Dick: That's true. those kinds of things, Steve Schneider: that's where you don't understand this group, because it's always been direct the people that have come here to hear the Bible given as it is has come from a man that has had supernatural revelations, divine revelations. Or, on the other hand, he's deluded or he's -- you know, sniffing birchbark or something.
But the, the truth of the matter is for us study. I've been with him, now remember, for six-and-a-half years. And from the, the beginning that I met him, the information he has now is a time even. I mean, I tested and tried by travelling around the world, by going to professors of a number of universities.
I sat down with numerous, numerous ministers and priests and, and ultimately rabbis. And -- I mean, he was so beyond. It's like taking someone out of a sandbox that's four or five years old and, and run into a guy that has doctorate degrees. It's that much of a difference, apart from -- I don't care if they're scholars with degrees.
If that Dick: Yeah, but nobody under-- let's face it. Nobody understands what that man has to say. Now Steve Schneider: I do. -- Dick: Well, you, you -- Steve Schneider: I, I think you -- Dick: -- you're an exception then.
Steve Schneider: No, no. Dick, you would yourself if you listened, but you haven't chosen, obviously -- Dick: Well, listen -- Steve Schneider: -- to listen. Dick: Let me tell you something. I have -- Steve Schneider: Okay.
Dick: -- talked to a number of people that have come out of that compound. Okay? Steve Schneider: Okay. Dick: When I wasn't here, I was dealing with some of those people, all say that they like what he has to say, they believe what he has to say, but none of them can follow what he has to say.
Steve Schneider: They can, but they can't, I'll tell you the truth. I could make a lot of sense of it. You'd have a much easier time of me because I can express myself a little better than they can. At the same a lot of these people that have come out, like you can mention like, say, Brad or Kevin, these are hard-core type guys that have come directly out of the world and, and with no real religious influences whatsoever.
They've never been communicators, of course. So, by going to certain individuals, you know, they, they know what they've seen and what they've heard. It's, it's very logical and clear to them. But for them to repeat a message that only David really has the ability under all circumstances to open up and to answer any and all kinds of questions, it's very logical and clear.
I think you would understand what he is saying when he is speaking. I, I'm serious. Dick: Okay. Let me ask you this.
Steve Schneider: Sure. Dick: why do Steve Schneider: I don't have the foggiest -- Dick: well, I mean, that's not -- Steve Schneider: -- idea. Dick: Again, I, I'm not here to repeat what they said. We just have done some work on this and, and, of course, early Steve Schneider: Has it been very different from what you've heard?
I mean, because I don't -- you know, if you could Dick: Well, there -- difference in substance, certainly. what needs to be done. Steve Schneider: But, Dick -- I know -- Dick: Steve. Steve Schneider: I understand.
We're, we're, we're stuck because you're in one vein and we're in another. This is a religious thing. We're, we're here because of the Bible, because we believe in God -- Dick: It's a religious thing in part, Steve. It's a religious thing in part, and we're not quarrelling with that part.
However continue, please. And then you can go ahead. Steve Schneider: Okay. Dick: What has happened here is there have been four Federal agents killed.
There have been many Federal agents wounded. There have been folks inside there, the, the exact number -- Steve Schneider: Well, why is it that the Dick: we're not sure -- Steve Schneider: -- four why do you mention the four agents first when they in fact killed three -- Dick: Okay. I'll mention your -- Steve Schneider: -- people in here first. Dick: I'm just summarizing what has happened.
Okay? Steve Schneider: No, no. I, I know that -- Dick: when you say the … of it. Steve Schneider: Because of this powerful government, which has gotten so out of -- damn out of hand, so out of hand that it's not the people control anymore, but it's, it's powerful men in positions that should have never been, that the Con-- Constitution guaranteed that that would not take place.
The nineteenth of April, at about six in the morning. Byron Sage telephones the building. Then the loudspeakers.
Byron: Steve? This is Byron Sage. Can you hear me now? Okay.
This is Byron Sage. I need to advise you of something that's very important. Can you understand me? Okay.
We're in the process of placing tear gas into the building. This is not an assault. We are not entering the building. Do you understand that?
This is not an assault in the building. We are not entering the building. This is not an assault. Do not fire your weapons.
If you fire, fire will be returned. Okay. They've hung up the phone. Unidentified Male Speaker: They've hung up the phone.
Byron: Are we still up on the PA? Unidentified Male Speaker: NO, not now. Byron: No, I want up. Unidentified Male Speaker: Okay.
Byron: Loud. Unidentified Male Speaker: GO ahead. Byron: Loud. Unidentified Male Speaker: GO ahead.
You're loud. Byron: Steve, David, individuals inside the Branch Davidian compound, we are in the process of placing tear gas into the building. This is not an assault. This is not an assault.
We will not be entering the building. This is not an assault. Do not, under any circumstances, discharge your weapons. If you fire, fire will be returned.
Do not shoot. This is not an assault. The gas you will be smelling is a non-lethal tear gas. This gas will temporarily render the building uninhabitable.
Exit the compound now and follow the instructions of the individuals who will talk to you from the Bradleys. You are not to have anyone in the tower. The tower is off limits. The tower is off limits.
No one is to be in the tower. Anyone observed in the tower If you come out now, with your hands up carrying nothing. Come out of the compound with your hands up carrying nothing. Come out of the building and walk up the driveway toward Double Ranch Road.
Walk towards a large Red Cross flag near Double E Ranch Road. Follow all instructions of the FBI agents in the Bradley vehicles. Follow all instructions. You are under arrest.
This standoff is over. We do not want anyone to be hurt. Follow all instructions. This is not an assault.
Do not fire any weapons. We do not want anyone hurt. The gas will continue to be delivered until everyone is safely out of the building. Exit the compound now.
David, Steve, those of you remaining inside the Branch Davidian complex, it is time to surrender to the proper authority. We do not want anyone to be hurt. anyone in the tower. The tower is off limits.
No one is to be in the tower. Anyone observed in the tower will be considered to be an act of aggression and will be dealt with accordingly. If you come out now, you will not be harmed. Follow all instructions.
Come out with your hands up. Carry nothing. Come out of the building and walk up the driveway toward Double E Ranch Road. Walk toward the large Red Cross flag.
Follow all instructions of the FBI agents in the Bradleys. I repeat, follow all instructions. You are under arrest. You are under arrest.
This standoff is over. We do not want anyone to be hurt. Follow all instructions. This is not an assault.
Do not fire any weapons. Do not fire any weapons. We do not want anyone to be hurt. Gas will continue to be delivered until everyone is out of the building.
Exit the compound now. Surrender to the proper authority. Steve, David, we're attempting to contact you via the telephone. Attempt to initiate contact telephonically with the negotiators.
If you cannot do that if you cannot do that, if the lines have been cut, indicate with a flag out the front door. Once again, do not, do not send anyone into the tower. The tower is off limits. No one is to be in the tower.
Send a flag out the front door to indicate if the phone line is no longer working or if you do not if you have any intention of trying to contact us, this will initiate or help us to initiate telephonic contact with you. Once again, this is not an assault. We are not entering the building. Do not fire your weapons.
have observed the flag that you've placed outside the front door. You need to indicate to us whether or not the phone is working or whether or not you have thrown the phone out of the building. If, in fact, the phone is working, reinitiate contact with the negotiators now. - He's announcing it now.
Byron: If it is not working -- if it is not working, you will have to pass that message to us with the first people coming out of the complex. This siege is over. David, Steve, it is time for those people to come out. They can bring forward the message and we can attempt to reinitiate reports that although we have not initiated fire towards you, there has been fire initiated towards the tanks.
Therefore, we are not in a position to place our agents in jeopardy, to deliver a phone to you at this time. If you intend to come out, at this time place a flag out the front door and we will ensure that you have a safe exit from the compound. If you intend to come out, at this time change the flag at the front door and we will ensure that you are exiting into a safe environment. We are in the process of delivering tear gas into the building.
This is not an assault. We are not entering the building. This is not an assault. Do not fire your weapons.
If you fire, fire will be returned. I've been advised that if you do not exit within the next two minutes, additional gas will be inserted into the building. Since you have not complied with the two minute warning, additional gas will be introduced into the building and will continue to be delivered until everyone is out of the compound. Unidentified Male Speaker: Do not subject yourself and your children to any further discomfort.
Place the white flag out of the door to indicate your readiness to exit. This standoff is over. It is time to come out now. It is time to come out now.
Byron: -- inside the Branch Davidian compound, we are continuing to introduce tear gas into the building. This is not an assault. We are not entering the building. You are not going to be subjected to any fire unless you fire upon the agents in the proximity of the compound.
Do not fire your weapons. If you fire, you will be fired upon. Do not shoot. This is not this is not an assault.
The gas you smell is a non-lethal tear gas. The gas will temporarily render the building uninhabitable. Exit the compound now and follow the instructions. Gas will continue to be delivered until the last person is out of the building.
There is no variance. There is no compromise. Gas will continue to be delivered until everyone is out of the building. Exit the compound now.
There is absolutely no reason to continue to subject yourselves and your children to Unidentified Male Speaker: The gas you smell is non-lethal tear gas. It will temporarily render the building uninhabitable. The gas will eventually permeate your food, your clothing and your water. Exit the compound now and follow the instructions we have discussed at length throughout the standoff.
no longer directs the compound members. We do not want anyone to be hurt. Follow our instructions. This is not an assault.
Do not fire your Byron: You are responsible for your own actions. If you come out now, At seven minutes past twelve, the first fire was seen. The loudspeakers were still running. Unidentified Male Speaker: from that building.
You are the one that put those people in that position. It is
time for you to bring those people out of there. time to do it. Do not depend on David Koresh's ability to make decision. It's very clear, I think, that he is unable to make decisions.
Vernon is finished. He's no longer the Messiah. He is to leave the building now. Exit the building now.
Bring Your children and leave the building. Fire is plainly visible. We observed people lighting the fire. leave the building.
Leave the building and walk toward the Red Cross sign. Leave the building now. You will not be harmed. You will not be fired on.
Put your weapons down and leave Nine people came out of the fire. More than seventy died inside. Seven years later, the Special Counsel found that the government had not started it, and had not fired into the building.
Wonder Minute